Friday, May 08, 2015

Waking up from a long slumber.

A Story in many parts...

I've been searching for a good rocketry project. The one I really want to do is start up a nano sat launcher business.  Every person I presented my business plan to had the same response, no way you can build a successful  orbital launcher for lest than $XX million dollars. Everyone's XX was different but they were all  at least two digits.

I was not planning to go to SpaceAccess this year.  I had nothing to present and I felt I know what most of the people presenting were going to present and felt the whole thing would be somewhat depressing watching power point after power point saying we are going to fly real hardware "real soon" With the exception of the few groups building real hardware (all of which I have personal friends on the inside) One sees same slides every year with different logos on it, and dam little real hardware.   My wife was visiting her sister in Canada and I woke up Friday morning feeling like maybe I should go to SA15 after all.   The hotel still had rooms for Firday night so after work I borrowed by friend Jeff's Mooney and flew myself to Space Access. (all of my airplanes were rented ).  A lot of people were really happy to see me. After 5 years it still amazes me the impact that my little garage project called "unreasonable rocket" has had on people.  One of the people I was looking forward to seeing at Space Access was Charles Pooley... he did not attend, more on that later.
I did not watch many space access presentations, I spent far more time sitting outside talking to people. One subject of discussion was what I call amateur sputnik, ie what would it take for an "amateur" group to orbit the equivalent of sputnik, ie  the smallest radio transmitter that can be easily detected on the ground.

After returning to San Diego several of us were worried about why Charles had not come to Space Access and why he did not answer his phone. On Monday we learned that he had died in his apartment.  Charles was in his mid seventies and had spent countless hours helping my son and I on the unreasonable rocket project.   He had a vision for small launchers that he and Ed Labouthiller turned into a book (MicroLaunchers). While I disagree with some of his technical designs  (I felt they were too complicated) and disagreed with reluctance to use computers, I did agree with most of the big concepts in Charles microlauncher concept.

I'm I'll be 53 this year, not young, not old, sort of in that neither region were I can see both camps and hints of inevitable entropy introduce themselves to you most mornings.  In the past past three years I've lost my Dad, My Step Mom and my Step Grandmother.  Seeing Charles dream extinguished without a real shot at doing it was just another sign pointing at the impermanence of life.

Building an orbital vehicle is om my bucket list, so all of this adds up to the inevitable question if   not now when. So I guess its now.  In the last week I've started several balls rolling, I have 4 or 5 concepts for composite flight weight tanks.

  1. Our previous flight weight tanks had liner leakage problems dues to bad resin, the trial batch of resin worked the 55gal special order did not. . One of my new  concepts is to build unlined tanks, then take them to a roto-molder and have the insides coated with polyethylene. 
  2. We tried to re-blow a large PET bottle and then cover it in carbon. The fact that we did this as two seperate steps made the resulting tank too heavy as there were fillers and excess to match the carbon support to the liner.  So the current concept is to make a flight weight high temperature composite cover for the PET bottle and then blow the bottel into the flight weight shell in a single step.
  3. I've had the concept of a long composite tubes lined with polyethelene heat sealing bag and high quality machined aluminum end caps.
  4. For a vacuum stage the pet bottle is almost good enough all by itself. So one concept is to just provide a tiny bit of carbon enforcement to the stock pet bottle around its girth and use that as a 100 psi tank.
I've restarted my tank project so that in the next few months I should have at least one of each of these concepts to test.

Additionally if these don't work I have two more concepts to try:

  1. Take a aluminum an tank form. Have it powder coated with thick clear powder coat.Wind a carbon shell over that. Use Lye do dissolve out the inner aluminum shell leaving a carbon shell with thin uniform poly liner.
  2. Wellmate makes really light poly lined fiberglass water tanks for residential use. I used one of their tanks as the fuel tank on silver.  They are almost flight weight as a stock COTS item.  One coudl do much development work with the stock tanks and for the final flight weight version one could aquire the un wrapped liners and wind carbon instead of eglass over them and.

In addition to restarting the airframe tank work I've started the ball rolling to get some fresh propellant delivered to FAR.

In the very short term I need to get my Garage cleaned up, I'm just going to pack and remove anything not rocket related and put it in storage.

Over the next month I will formulate a plan, a rough schedule and list of tasks.  Many people have offered to help, some have almost begged me to organize an effort they can participate in. 
I'm not good at delegation I like to get in there and do it myself, if this is going to work I will need to work on that. At the same time having the project turn into a free for all doesn't work either.

Some things I know I will need help with:

  • I need the smallest transmitter that can be detected on the ground and last for at least a week with batteries, it can have solar panels if they are lighter.
  • The current notional concept has a guided 2nd (or 2rd) stage that points, spins up and ignites an unguided solid final stage that puts the  transmitter in orbit. I think I need someone that can build a final stage high mass fraction solid to be the final stage, I think I have someone for this, but if this is your area of expertise I'm open for talks.
  • I need someone to help me put together a good simulation  ie to simulate the rocket getting to orbit. And hopefully to eventually do hardware in the loop simulation...
  • I'll need help on GNC, I can do GNC hardware and understand the concepts, but my GNC stuff was not great.
  • I need someone local to help video,photograph and blog things.
  • I will need help at FAR (two people) twice a month starting in September for at least a year.
  • I need someone that likes data, I gathered lots of test data in my last effort, I just never found the time to take this gathered data and put into presentable form, ie I'll provide a file of raw sensor data... it would be nice if this could be calibrated, trimmed to show the interesting parts and put in nice graphical form....
  • I need someone that likes to fabricate things.... to help with some of the development. For example I have some concepts for really light robust actuated valves, I could spend three weekends fabricating several sets, or I could spend an hour or two describing the concept to someone and let them fabricate and test. 
  • If someone wants to own the FAA part of this project I'm not sure its possible to deligate this, but I'm open to suggestions...
  • I'm open for someone that might want to help raise social media funds, ie kickstarter, indigogo, subscription access to the progress blog two weeks early etc... so anyone with ideas or a desire to do this would be helpful.
If you see anything on this list you want to help with, or other ideas you think you can help with 
I'm more than willing to entertain the idea.  At this point this is an amateur not for profit project to get something tiny in orbit. When that succeeds I will want to turn it into a proper business, how to give the volunteers involved with this project a share and value in the follow on potential company is something to be worked out upfront and I'm open to ideas.

In the next few weeks I'll do follow on posts with an outline of the notional vehicle,  and a number of the detail concepts that I am in the process of fleshing out.


qbert55ca said...


Your long composite tube with PET bag insert with Al Caps is exactly what the Condor Project had for the 78% peroxide tank. We had to reinforce the outside of the composite tube where the Al end caps were with a 1/4" thick AL band. Wires for electronics ran through a center 1" tube. The tank was tested to 450 PSI over a 24 hr period.

Paul Breed said...

Where can I find information on the Condor project? If it works for 70% it will work for 90 or 95%.

Paul Breed said...

The only google Item I find for Condor and rocket is an Argentinian solid fuel military rocket.

qbert55ca said...

Hi Paul

That was the peroxide project you and I talked about launching out at FAR.

There should be a blurb in the Arocket archives 9/24/2013. I can go into more detail on the construction of the fuel tank
but I will have to talk with George Forbs who was our composite guy and see what info he has on file for anything specific.

I will be away the rest of the day so I will put the non specifics together for you later tonight.


George Katz said...

Great to see you back Paul. :) This sounds like a great but very ambitious project. Hats off to you for having a go.
For your next micro-payload how about a silvered Mylar balloon filled from a CO2 cartridge. This way we could all see it ... just like Sputnik.

Ben Reytblat said...

I might be able to help with some of the fabrication. Since last we talked I've built a small manufacturing facility and am building largish 3D printers for sale ( We're pretty close to shipping our machines to customers.

We have a few CNC machines that I'd be happy to put to use on this project.


Paul Breed said...

I post this then drop off the net for Mother's Day weekend at Yosemite.
It was fun now I'm back.

Ben, I may call you and chat about your printers....

T. Joseph Nkansah-Mahaney said...

Hi Paul,

Own a SLA printer with plans to invest in additional printers.

Will hopefully be setting up shop this summer with bench-top CNC, 3D Printers (SLA & FDM), vinyl cutter and some electronics prototyping equipment. Would be happy to help with the small development and fabrication.

Welcome back into the saddle Paul. We all knew you couldn't resist. ;-)


Unknown said...

For the transmitter hardware you have lots of options these days.

You may want to get in touch with these folks...

who could probably help you on the regulatory front (which could be a bunch of paperwork if you want to keep things kosher).

I believe the L3-Cadet radio

uses a CC1100 series part below for UHF comms...

and very cheap.

Not rad-hard by design or anything, but if your target mission duration isn't heroic, you should be OK.

Not to complicate your payload, but with that part you could do a little bit of packet radio in addition to beeping out a message.

Good luck with the project!


MTO said...

Hi Paul! I stumbled on a video that made me think of your attempts to turn pop bottles into fuel tanks, and I thought I'd share... Only to realize its been about a year since I last looked into your blog, and so I've got catching up to do! Yay!

Anyhow, here's the video, hope it sparks ideas.

Naveen Chaudhary said...

valentine wish
valentine quotes for girlfriend
valentine day wishes for girlfriend
valentine day poems for girlfriend

Amit Yadav said...

valentine day wishes
valentines message for wife
valentines poems for boyfriend
valenines poems for girlfriend
valentines message for girlfriend said...

Happy Mothers Day
Happy Mothers Day
Happy Fathers Day

Blogger said...

Ever wanted to get free Twitter Re-tweets?
Did you know that you can get these AUTOMATICALLY & TOTALLY FREE by using Add Me Fast?

عبده العمراوى said...

شركة قمة الدقة للخدمات المنزلية
شركة تسليك مجارى بالدمام
شركة تسليك مجارى بالخبر
شركة تنظيف منازل بالاحساء
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالاحساء

Love Kpop said...

I like to get up early to go out and breathe fresh air. I feel that it is good for health and a good habit